Why is the beginners lobby 0-6

Ok, this is a serious question - and I want to know how the community feels about it. Are you all ok with the beginners lobby being 0-6? back when this game was released the beginners lobby was only intended for 0-4. Now a days it takes hours to fill any scenarios or world games in the main lobby because all the low ranks (6-5) that made the bulk of these games is now busy farming ranks 0-4.

Don't you all think the main lobby needs more players? perhaps if we push those mid-ranks into the main lobby, we would have more players to fill the scenarios, and also low ranks 0-3 would be retained more often since they would not be annihilated by predatory ranks 6.

More activity in the Main lobby would increase the overall activity of the game, since ranks 0-4 don't really care if the games are fully filled and won't notice the difference. But high ranks will notice the change, drastically.

The key question is where to find the balance between new players leaving the game or making new accounts due to the skill disparity between the main and beginner rooms, and satisfying the community overall by having games that fill quickly, assuming you want at least semi capable players taking part.
Lower ranks would rather just be op and win games (overall) rather than taking time to learn the game.
My thoughts are to remove the beginners room completley (going back to Chess suggestion in 2015) and automatically feature a removable filter of games relevant to a players rank, providing a more seamless transition, allowing free account players up to rank 8 to set rank limits to a maximum of rank 8, relevant to the players particular rank i.e. a rank 7 can set rank limits up to r7, or remove the rank cap completley if the player wants to play higher levels.
Any player past rank 9 would lose this feature.
This in my opinion would fix both issues of account retention and community division.

I'd make beginners 0-5 but not go any lower than that.

लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 19.06.2020 at 00:46

Ok, this is a serious question - and I want to know how the community feels about it. Are you all ok with the beginners lobby being 0-6? back when this game was released the beginners lobby was only intended for 0-4. Now a days it takes hours to fill any scenarios or world games in the main lobby because all the low ranks (6-5) that made the bulk of these games is now busy farming ranks 0-4.

Don't you all think the main lobby needs more players? perhaps if we push those mid-ranks into the main lobby, we would have more players to fill the scenarios, and also low ranks 0-3 would be retained more often since they would not be annihilated by predatory ranks 6.

More activity in the Main lobby would increase the overall activity of the game, since ranks 0-4 don't really care if the games are fully filled and won't notice the difference. But high ranks will notice the change, drastically.

Yes please i am tired of being bullied into the beginners ction while not being lalowed to join any game in begginer section...

I think begineers should be up to r4 maybe r5

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 19.06.2020 at 02:46

My thoughts are to remove the beginners room completley (going back to Chess suggestion in 2015) and automatically feature a removable filter of games relevant to a players rank, providing a more seamless transition, allowing free account players up to rank 8 to set rank limits to a maximum of rank 8, relevant to the players particular rank i.e. a rank 7 can set rank limits up to r7, or remove the rank cap completley if the player wants to play higher levels.
Any player past rank 9 would lose this feature.
This in my opinion would fix both issues of account retention and community division.

I don't think this will work for this reason
In order for a potential single lobby to possible work out, what's needed is for beginners to be ALLOWED to play in the lobby in the first place, which doesn't happen in modern atwar. People always kick lower ranks who try to play in beginners either because they're "noob" or a better player (someone rank 8+) comes and says they'd be a better alternative. People will always replace the low rank for the high rank because there's security in having a higher rank playing versus a low rank, because you don't have to worry about game fails as much when there's higher ranks vs low ranks so people are less willing to allow low ranks to play. The reason I think a beginners room is necessary is because this ostracizing doesn't happen in the beginners room because they're all low ranks anyway and there's no considerable skill gap, whereas in a merged room there will be a clear disparity which you can't really ignore. In fact in a merged room I'd expect the ostracizing to increase because beginners are gonna be more likely to try to join games with better players. The reason people are adamant to let low ranks play in the first place is due to the fact the games will fail and people will be sitting in lobby for an additional hour just to refill the game again. No one wants to go through that so they're just gonna boot the low ranks instead.

Im not gonna lie i always put rank limit at r7 , somtimes 8 too , cuz then the scenario gets to unbalanced and theirs higher risk of trolling too,
but their usualy are scens up that accept all ranks , like most colonial and GOT maps etc, i think the bigger the map the more lower ranks are allowed to play cuz of player demand needed to start.

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 19.06.2020 at 16:52

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 19.06.2020 at 02:46

My thoughts are to remove the beginners room completley (going back to Chess suggestion in 2015) and automatically feature a removable filter of games relevant to a players rank, providing a more seamless transition, allowing free account players up to rank 8 to set rank limits to a maximum of rank 8, relevant to the players particular rank i.e. a rank 7 can set rank limits up to r7, or remove the rank cap completley if the player wants to play higher levels.
Any player past rank 9 would lose this feature.
This in my opinion would fix both issues of account retention and community division.

I don't think this will work for this reason
In order for a potential single lobby to possible work out, what's needed is for beginners to be ALLOWED to play in the lobby in the first place, which doesn't happen in modern atwar. People always kick lower ranks who try to play in beginners either because they're "noob" or a better player (someone rank 8+) comes and says they'd be a better alternative. People will always replace the low rank for the high rank because there's security in having a higher rank playing versus a low rank, because you don't have to worry about game fails as much when there's higher ranks vs low ranks so people are less willing to allow low ranks to play. The reason I think a beginners room is necessary is because this ostracizing doesn't happen in the beginners room because they're all low ranks anyway and there's no considerable skill gap, whereas in a merged room there will be a clear disparity which you can't really ignore. In fact in a merged room I'd expect the ostracizing to increase because beginners are gonna be more likely to try to join games with better players. The reason people are adamant to let low ranks play in the first place is due to the fact the games will fail and people will be sitting in lobby for an additional hour just to refill the game again. No one wants to go through that so they're just gonna boot the low ranks instead.

There is considerable skill gaps in the beginners room, as what you find with players is instead of ranking up in the main room, they prefer to abandon the account and start another one, thereby you have complete novices getting trashed by the equivalent of a r 8 or 9 in terms of their accumulated SP on multiple accounts. Stopping that from happening would help a lot to retain the new traffic that lands on the homepage.
In all essence the player would only see games that they are able to join within the predefined rank limits and create a more gradual approach in terms of levelling up .
I suggested removing this at R9 for 3 reasons:
As Siri says, most high level games for both scenarios and competetive is r8 minimum.
Usually beginners go through 2 or 3 accounts before ranking up with their 'main'
Beyond R9 they would have the skill and confidence to compete at any level

You would still be able to exclude any rank level with this system.

It crazy I been arguing to brink it back to 0-4 but everyone was looking at me crazy lol.

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 19.06.2020 at 20:29

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 19.06.2020 at 16:52

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 19.06.2020 at 02:46

My thoughts are to remove the beginners room completley (going back to Chess suggestion in 2015) and automatically feature a removable filter of games relevant to a players rank, providing a more seamless transition, allowing free account players up to rank 8 to set rank limits to a maximum of rank 8, relevant to the players particular rank i.e. a rank 7 can set rank limits up to r7, or remove the rank cap completley if the player wants to play higher levels.
Any player past rank 9 would lose this feature.
This in my opinion would fix both issues of account retention and community division.

I don't think this will work for this reason
In order for a potential single lobby to possible work out, what's needed is for beginners to be ALLOWED to play in the lobby in the first place, which doesn't happen in modern atwar. People always kick lower ranks who try to play in beginners either because they're "noob" or a better player (someone rank 8+) comes and says they'd be a better alternative. People will always replace the low rank for the high rank because there's security in having a higher rank playing versus a low rank, because you don't have to worry about game fails as much when there's higher ranks vs low ranks so people are less willing to allow low ranks to play. The reason I think a beginners room is necessary is because this ostracizing doesn't happen in the beginners room because they're all low ranks anyway and there's no considerable skill gap, whereas in a merged room there will be a clear disparity which you can't really ignore. In fact in a merged room I'd expect the ostracizing to increase because beginners are gonna be more likely to try to join games with better players. The reason people are adamant to let low ranks play in the first place is due to the fact the games will fail and people will be sitting in lobby for an additional hour just to refill the game again. No one wants to go through that so they're just gonna boot the low ranks instead.

There is considerable skill gaps in the beginners room, as what you find with players is instead of ranking up in the main room, they prefer to abandon the account and start another one, thereby you have complete novices getting trashed by the equivalent of a r 8 or 9 in terms of their accumulated SP on multiple accounts. Stopping that from happening would help a lot to retain the new traffic that lands on the homepage.
In all essence the player would only see games that they are able to join within the predefined rank limits and create a more gradual approach in terms of levelling up .
I suggested removing this at R9 for 3 reasons:
As Siri says, most high level games for both scenarios and competetive is r8 minimum.
Usually beginners go through 2 or 3 accounts before ranking up with their 'main'
Beyond R9 they would have the skill and confidence to compete at any level

You would still be able to exclude any rank level with this system.

That's not the point I'm making. The point is that in order to even adjust with higher ranks you have to be able to play with them, you don't get improve by playing people of equal skill or worse skill than your own. Some rank 3 is just gonna stagnate by playing other rank 3's continuously. The point I'm making is that people won't let these newer players participate in these games at all because they're seen as "noob" or incapable of holding their own due to their low rank and for that reason they'll just be booted from more games than they can actually play leading to newer players quitting even MORE.

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 20.06.2020 at 08:41

Yes I see what you are saying, what I am suggesting would be for an optional rank filter until rank 8. They can remove it any time. However, its just a tool so that players can grudally progress playing at their own level should they wish too or host games with higher ranks if they wish too. Therefore removing the skill disparity between beginners and main room, which after 2 months of recruiting players at this level for a clan, have identified that as a real issue amongst those level players, such as those that will play every 3 months instead of daily for instance

Remove beginners lobby. Make them used to playing with or, at least, watching higher ranks play. Allow them to see what this game is all about as soon as possible, cause if we don't, they will just feel too much preasure once they must jump to the main lobby. I don't believe having a beginners room brings anything to the table.

As Sun said, just allow them to implement the rank limit they please in their own games until they are level 5 or 6 and that will prevent high ranks from farming them, that's all.

I'm still in firm opposition a merged lobby because still low ranks are just gonna get kicked from 90% of games they try joining, whether it be for being a noob or because a high rank wants to take their spot instead. Fact of the matter is no one's gonna want to have to deal with that continuously in most games they join

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 21.06.2020 at 19:55

I'm still in firm opposition a merged lobby because still low ranks are just gonna get kicked from 90% of games they try joining, whether it be for being a noob or because a high rank wants to take their spot instead. Fact of the matter is no one's gonna want to have to deal with that continuously in most games they join

Surely high ranks can put their own rank filter, the same as we have at present?

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 21.06.2020 at 23:20

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 21.06.2020 at 19:55

I'm still in firm opposition a merged lobby because still low ranks are just gonna get kicked from 90% of games they try joining, whether it be for being a noob or because a high rank wants to take their spot instead. Fact of the matter is no one's gonna want to have to deal with that continuously in most games they join

Surely high ranks can put their own rank filter, the same as we have at present?

I'm aware of that fact but the matter is that in two lobbies high ranks and low ranks are gonna be in a combined space so low ranks are gonna wanna play with high ranks more which just means they'll get booted twice as frequently for doing so. If anything that'll just discourage them instead of encouraging activity. I just see more adverse effects to this than actual positives. Sure maybe a small 10% of beginners will adjust but to think majority will do so is absurd. I mean why would anyone want to keep playing in a game where people hate you, call you noob and boot you from most games for being a new player?

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 22.06.2020 at 06:01

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 21.06.2020 at 23:20

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 21.06.2020 at 19:55

I'm still in firm opposition a merged lobby because still low ranks are just gonna get kicked from 90% of games they try joining, whether it be for being a noob or because a high rank wants to take their spot instead. Fact of the matter is no one's gonna want to have to deal with that continuously in most games they join

Surely high ranks can put their own rank filter, the same as we have at present?

I'm aware of that fact but the matter is that in two lobbies high ranks and low ranks are gonna be in a combined space so low ranks are gonna wanna play with high ranks more which just means they'll get booted twice as frequently for doing so. If anything that'll just discourage them instead of encouraging activity. I just see more adverse effects to this than actual positives. Sure maybe a small 10% of beginners will adjust but to think majority will do so is absurd. I mean why would anyone want to keep playing in a game where people hate you, call you noob and boot you from most games for being a new player?

What stops a low rank to do this now? Nothing. Main lobby has always rank limits no matter what. It also has most of the time more intresting maps hosted than begginers which makes it more attractive. Begginers lobby is great and we saw its potential during lockdown but after it it has felt empty and boring like it used to be before.

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 22.06.2020 at 06:01

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 21.06.2020 at 23:20

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 21.06.2020 at 19:55

I'm still in firm opposition a merged lobby because still low ranks are just gonna get kicked from 90% of games they try joining, whether it be for being a noob or because a high rank wants to take their spot instead. Fact of the matter is no one's gonna want to have to deal with that continuously in most games they join

Surely high ranks can put their own rank filter, the same as we have at present?

I'm aware of that fact but the matter is that in two lobbies high ranks and low ranks are gonna be in a combined space so low ranks are gonna wanna play with high ranks more which just means they'll get booted twice as frequently for doing so. If anything that'll just discourage them instead of encouraging activity. I just see more adverse effects to this than actual positives. Sure maybe a small 10% of beginners will adjust but to think majority will do so is absurd. I mean why would anyone want to keep playing in a game where people hate you, call you noob and boot you from most games for being a new player?

You miss the point, high ranks will set their own rank limits so players would not be able to join in the first place, not would they even see that the game is available to join.

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 22.06.2020 at 06:29

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 22.06.2020 at 06:01

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 21.06.2020 at 23:20

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 21.06.2020 at 19:55

I'm still in firm opposition a merged lobby because still low ranks are just gonna get kicked from 90% of games they try joining, whether it be for being a noob or because a high rank wants to take their spot instead. Fact of the matter is no one's gonna want to have to deal with that continuously in most games they join

Surely high ranks can put their own rank filter, the same as we have at present?

I'm aware of that fact but the matter is that in two lobbies high ranks and low ranks are gonna be in a combined space so low ranks are gonna wanna play with high ranks more which just means they'll get booted twice as frequently for doing so. If anything that'll just discourage them instead of encouraging activity. I just see more adverse effects to this than actual positives. Sure maybe a small 10% of beginners will adjust but to think majority will do so is absurd. I mean why would anyone want to keep playing in a game where people hate you, call you noob and boot you from most games for being a new player?

You miss the point, high ranks will set their own rank limits so players would not be able to join in the first place, not would they even see that the game is available to join.

Yeah but that's a thing now. That's not really gonna stop this at all. Judging based on how things work now there ARE games that high ranks host that allow low ranks, and when low ranks join they STILL get booted from games in favor of better players. Pretty much any game that's not a world map or regular custom map like ancient is gonna be subject to this. Like for example colonial supremacy scenarios, people allow low ranks to join but they still get booted nonetheless in favor of a better player because no one wants a rank 5 as britain being the main power of the map. You're overlooking the majority of the games being created (team games, both competitive and scenarios), the team games will be heavily rank influenced even if they allow lower ranks to join and this is an inevitability.
Also how often do you see regular custom maps except world map being hosted? Not that often, no one's gonna want to play world map 24/7, it gets boring after a point and not many other custom maps that are different get hosted, so low ranks are gonna eventually want to branch out (into these team games that they're being excluded from)

I highly disagree with such an idea because all it does is inconvenience new players, which is what we need to grow this game, it favors our long-term players who are gonna play no matter what but inconveniences the ones we WANT to stay.

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 22.06.2020 at 06:34

Low rank eclusion will exist no matter what system is created, as ultimately hosts want players who can play. There is nothing you can do to fix that. The proposed system would not interfere with the way higher ranks host games.

Whilst providing critism of the solution you are not countering this with any proposal to fix the issues at hand:

How to increase activity in the main game population
How to motivate players to keep their accounts instead of abandoning and creating new ones due to the skill disparity in ranking up from beginner to main (7 day free premium doesnt help) Or even worse leaving the game entirely

लिखा द्वारा Sun Tsu, 22.06.2020 at 07:32

लिखा द्वारा Black Vortex, 22.06.2020 at 06:34

Low rank eclusion will exist no matter what system is created, as ultimately hosts want players who can play. There is nothing you can do to fix that. The proposed system would not interfere with the way higher ranks host games.

Whilst providing critism of the solution you are not countering this with any proposal to fix the issues at hand:

How to increase activity in the main game population
How to motivate players to keep their accounts instead of abandoning and creating new ones due to the skill disparity in ranking up from beginner to main (7 day free premium doesnt help) Or even worse leaving the game entirely

I'm aware of low rank exclusion but the problem is that it'll be more apparent in one lobby. Because I like mentioned, if its one big lobby beginners will naturally be checking out every available game(including high rank games) and attempt to join it when possible, which means more exclusion which is not as likely to happen in beginners.

You're right that I'm not providing any fix to it, but people keep bringing up this idea and I'm trying to make it apparent how this has a lot adverse effects than people seem to realize. It's really only benefiting the longterm players who are gonna play regardless not really the people who we want to turn into longterm players (new people). Because lIke I mentioned if they're forced into main's environment all that's gonna happen is they're subject to high rank bias more often than what they are now.


The only plausible way to actually counteract this is to promote the non-team games. Whether it be world map, ancients and other custom maps with no prerequisite skill. Because most games require skill to some degree. But games like world maps and maps with pickable starting nations don't have a skill requirement because it's basically a free for all. Because team games and games with actual skill requirement are the majority of games played, you'd have to flip that, and to do so is no easy task.