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मूल प्रति

द्वारा KYBL, 11.01.2015 - 13:03
In light of Martell announcing that he is going to take down his RP map, it brings up another important issue, that of how much power a mapmaker should have.

Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.

This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.

Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.

Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.

Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.

[EDITED BY CTHULHU]: Martell's thread has been deleted by Martell
12.01.2015 - 10:35
 KYBL
लिखा द्वारा Guest, 12.01.2015 at 03:01

If your logic of ''letting the market take it's course'' EA should be bankrupt. But it's not, although it ignores the players, try to suck your wallet with DLC they are still getting loads of customers.
Therefore, mapmakers can get away with banning for no reason. And guess what guys, I got banned from Martell's RP for criticizing his map. My reason was called ''constant hostility'' but how is that valid?
Unless you people can prove the devs wanted mapmakers to have complete control over their maps, mods will keep on reviewing bans as they have not be criticized by the devs, althought they have been doing this from the beginning,
while this nonsense only popped out recently.

This isn't a massive game with millions of people competing, this is a small environment with about 1k regular players. If you ban too many people, you will barely get enough players to play your maps.

And the video game industry is extremely different. Elasticity in the gaming industry is very tight because you cannot easily substitute one game for another. Some random guy can't suddenly start a video game company and make master video games within a few months time. The games that are released by EA are very hard to substitute for, and therefore, they can afford being a dick to players because there is no viable substitute, and their games will be played anyways.

AtWar games, however, are very elastic. You can make a very good map within a few months that can easily compete with other maps. That is why we have 4 GGGs, as well as many other colonial maps, along with at least 3 popular WWIs, 2 popular WWIIs (although one of them is down right now), 3 RPs, a bunch of Napoleons, and at least 5 ancient worlds. With this kind of market, it is very easily to substitute one map for another, and mapmakers will suffer the consequences of being a dick to players if they act in such a way.

It is more like if McDonalds suddenly decided to double the price of their products and randomly throw people out of their store. Sales at McDonalds would plummet because going to Burger King or Harvey's or Wendy's or KFC is also an option, and the prices are much lower, and you don't need to worry about being thrown out. The fast food industry is very elastic because one fast food joint is so easy to substitute with another one. Therefore, they need to please customers to stay competitive. AtWar maps work in the exact same way.

Lrn2Econ

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 12.01.2015 at 10:04

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules

Yes, but them playing my maps reduced my ability to enjoy the game as I am pissed off that someone I don't like is enjoying my property. Also, moderators having to interfere with ban lists makes it harder for them to maintain the game, while it would be so much easier if they didn't have any work to do.
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12.01.2015 - 15:09
Rankist Sharck
खाता खाते को नष्ट कर दिया है।
लिखा द्वारा KYBL, 12.01.2015 at 10:35

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 12.01.2015 at 10:04

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules

Yes, but them playing my maps reduced my ability to enjoy the game as I am pissed off that someone I don't like is enjoying my property. Also, moderators having to interfere with ban lists makes it harder for them to maintain the game, while it would be so much easier if they didn't have any work to do.
I never said this rule should protect players who ruin games, I am saying that you can limit other player's playability for absurd reasons, which breaks the rules as they have not broke the map nor game rules if we allow map makers to ban whoever and why the hell they want.
And the mods aren't complaining about their work.
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12.01.2015 - 15:19
All i have to say is you are all pedantic immature children and especially mapmakers.

Provide legit reason,add SS and then add to banlist.Simple as that.Grow the fuck up already.
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12.01.2015 - 15:22
लिखा द्वारा Khal.eesi, 12.01.2015 at 15:19

All i have to say is you are all pedantic immature children and especially mapmakers.

Provide legit reason,add SS and then add to banlist.Simple as that.Grow the fuck up already.


Khal is right
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It's not the end.

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12.01.2015 - 15:27
लिखा द्वारा Guest, 12.01.2015 at 10:04

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules

actually it doesnt say anything about banning, I as a player want the full ability of the game that is not interfered by trolls, or rule breakers or just assholes who ruin every game I make and host, so it is in my protection to protect my freedom to enjoy the game, the second people break the rules of a map they are breaking the idea of people enjoying the game, personal motives, while unethical, are still a person (map makers) way of helping his/her gameplay to be enjoyable, that is how the rules are put, it doesnt give clear statement to either side so you can not say the devs meant the rules to mean bans are illegal if not approved by mods.
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12.01.2015 - 16:19
Playing on someone's map is not a "right" given to you by the admins or rules ...its a "privilege" given to you by the map maker.
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12.01.2015 - 16:32
लिखा द्वारा Goblin, 12.01.2015 at 16:19

Playing on someone's map is not a "right" given to you by the admins or rules ...its a "privilege" given to you by the map maker.

This ^
And if mods are threatening to punish mapmakers for banning people with no reason then how about this:
We let the atwar community vote on what should require for a ban to be put it place (ex.: screenshot, etc.)
Until then map makers should deserve to get the right to ban who they want as there is no rule stated by admins and/or mods and no rule set in stone.
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[pr] Your Camel: Al Fappino: fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap, what day is it fap?

If you go on ebay and find a life, lmk so i can give you cash so u can get it-Commando Eagle
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12.01.2015 - 16:44
Good job goblin yeah give them support.the answer is no, the fucking little brats cant ban people for no reason and thats the end of it.
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12.01.2015 - 16:52
लिखा द्वारा Camel, 12.01.2015 at 16:32

We let the atwar community vote on what should require for a ban to be put it place (ex.: screenshot, etc.)
Until then map makers should deserve to get the right to ban who they want as there is no rule stated by admins and/or mods and no rule set in stone.

In my opinion, nobody is in any position to demand anything from a map maker or can he be bound by any rules, beside the preventive SP farming one on which mods already have authority.

I am at the moment making a map ...i didn't sign a "service contract" with the admins, im not geting payed for this. I payed for to be able to make maps ...its mine and if i want i can wipe my ass with it (delete it).

So how can i have an ultimate power like that ...yet be denied a lesser power on my own creation?

@Khal ...i already said this, but i doubt anyone with any sense would ban anyone for absolutely no reason what so ever ...what is the worst that could come from this?

Players who want to play on the map but also want to be assholes and trolls actually being forced to chose one of this things? Less assholes and trolls ...god forbid.
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12.01.2015 - 16:59
लिखा द्वारा Guest, 12.01.2015 at 10:04

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules


I would have banned you too if you go and talk shit about my map. As the end, you are welcome to play other maps or make your own.
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12.01.2015 - 17:03
लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 16:59

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 12.01.2015 at 10:04

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules


I would have banned you too if you go and talk shit about my map. As the end, you are welcome to play other maps or make your own.

Indeed.
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[pr] Your Camel: Al Fappino: fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap, what day is it fap?

If you go on ebay and find a life, lmk so i can give you cash so u can get it-Commando Eagle
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12.01.2015 - 17:08
लिखा द्वारा Khal.eesi, 12.01.2015 at 15:19

All i have to say is you are all pedantic immature children and especially mapmakers.

Provide legit reason,add SS and then add to banlist.Simple as that.Grow the fuck up already.


What about you stop being a entitle cunt.

Its time for a grape analogy =D
I am promoting my Grape company by feeding you (free) grapes to your mouth (for free), while taking away bad grapes in order to make sure you only get good grapes and have a wonderful experience, yet you still want me to give you a screen shoot of every single grape i discard, and threat to take away my ability to remove grapes if i don't follow your instruction.
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12.01.2015 - 17:11
 KYBL
लिखा द्वारा Khal.eesi, 12.01.2015 at 16:44

Good job goblin yeah give them support.the answer is no, the fucking little brats cant ban people for no reason and thats the end of it.

>Calls us immature
>Doesn't actually provide an argument, just uses a bunch of swear words and gets pissy
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12.01.2015 - 17:36
लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 17:08

लिखा द्वारा Khal.eesi, 12.01.2015 at 15:19

All i have to say is you are all pedantic immature children and especially mapmakers.

Provide legit reason,add SS and then add to banlist.Simple as that.Grow the fuck up already.


What about you stop being a entitle cunt.

Its time for a grape analogy =D
I am promoting my Grape company by feeding you (free) grapes to your mouth (for free), while taking away bad grapes in order to make sure you only get good grapes and have a wonderful experience, yet you still want me to give you a screen shoot of every single grape i discard, and threat to take away my ability to remove grapes if i don't follow your instruction.

I kek'd
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TJM !!!
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12.01.2015 - 18:06
लिखा द्वारा Khal.eesi, 12.01.2015 at 15:19

All i have to say is you are all pedantic immature children and especially mapmakers.

Provide legit reason,add SS and then add to banlist.Simple as that.Grow the fuck up already.


I agree with you!

I've come to realize you map makers, the ones making a big deal out of nothing, truly are selfish immature children. Do you guys fail to realize none of this would be possible if the developers wouldn't have create this game? Instead of bitching, be thankful they allow all of us to create something because of their HARD work. You complain how difficult it is to create a map, try creating atWar.

How would you feel if the developers decided to ban one of you guys simply because they didn't like you, but allowed other trolls to play their game. You would think it is unfair, right? If you want to ban someone because you don't like them, simply ban them from your games but don't ban them from your entire map because of personal issues. If you want to ban someone for breaking the rules on your map, you have every right to do so. But, don't forget to provide evidence(Screenshots) to any mods, if questioned about the ban.

Also, your map does not belong to you completely. I would say it belongs to the community, but you just happen to be the creator. Yes, you created the map but who is giving you the tools to create the map? If one of the developers decided to ban you from atWar, they could potentially keep your map and allow the public to use it. You would not be able to do a thing about it. There is no official contract stating the map belongs to you. It's really just an illusion some of you have created in your mind.

Get over it and let people enjoy the game, that's what most of us come here to do.
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12.01.2015 - 18:22
लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

I've come to realize these map makers making a big deal out of nothing truly are selfish immature children. Do you guys fail to realize none of this would be possible if the developers didn't create this game? Instead of bitching, be thankful they allow all of us to create something because of their HARD work. You complain how difficult it is to create a map, try creating atWar.

How would you feel if the developers decided to ban one of you guys simply because they didn't like you, but allowed other trolls to play their game. You would think it is unfair, right? If you want to ban someone because you don't like them simply ban them from your games but don't ban them from your entire map because of personal issues. If you want to ban someone for breaking the rules on your map ban, you have every right to ban that person. But, don't forget to provide evidence(Screenshots) to any mods, if questioned about the ban.

Also, your map does not belong to you completely. I would say it belongs to the community, but you just happen to be the creator. Yes, you created the map but who is giving you the tools to create the map? If a mod decided to ban you from atWar they could potentially keep your map and allow the public to use it. You would not be able to do a thing about it. There is no official contract the map belongs to you. It's really just an illusion some of you have created in your mind.

Get over it and let people enjoy the game, that's what most of us come here to do.

A lot of problems with all that crap above you said ...

- developers of this game are earning money from their creation, map makers dont
- they gave us the tools? ...i fuckin payed for that tools
> turning this into "map makers" banning for no reason
- banned and map keep'd ...perma-ban i suppose? ...is this extortion and threatning?

- lastly ...no official contract that the map belongs to the map maker? ...do you know anything about contracts at all, because that was retarded.

I can delete my map without anyone's consent? ...map is mine -----> all the wisdom, and that little thing is kind of a "silent contract" here (real contract not something i made up).
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12.01.2015 - 18:22
 KYBL
लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

I've come to realize you map makers, the ones making a big deal out of nothing, truly are selfish immature children. Do you guys fail to realize none of this would be possible if the developers wouldn't have create this game? Instead of bitching, be thankful they allow all of us to create something because of their HARD work. You complain how difficult it is to create a map, try creating atWar.

I am thankful for their hard work, but admins have nothing to do with this. This is moderator abuse, not administrative abuse. Second of all, I am a premium player. I contributed to this game. I payed them, and that is the thanks they get for their hard work. I bought their product. It may be their hard work, but it is thanks to contributors like me that the website is up and running.

लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

How would you feel if the developers decided to ban one of you guys simply because they didn't like you, but allowed other trolls to play their game. You would think it is unfair, right? If you want to ban someone because you don't like them, simply ban them from your games but don't ban them from your entire map because of personal issues. If you want to ban someone for breaking the rules on your map ban, you have every right to ban that person. But, don't forget to provide evidence(Screenshots) to any mods, if questioned about the ban.

I wouldn't be a dick to the developers, and I also wouldn't do something worthy of kicking me off the game. If the devs began to randomly ban people, this game would get less plays because people would think that is BS.

लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

Also, your map does not belong to you completely. I would say it belongs to the community, but you just happen to be the creator. Yes, you created the map but who is giving you the tools to create the map? If a mod decided to ban you from atWar they could potentially keep your map and allow the public to use it. You would not be able to do a thing about it. There is no official contract the map belongs to you. It's really just an illusion some of you have created in your mind.

It does not belong to the fucking community. It belongs to me. It is my fucking property because I made it, I am the one who can edit it, I am the one who can delete it. Nobody else has that power besides me unless they abused the system which is against the rules. This isn't some communist fucking friendship circle where we all sit on a fucking carpet and suck the tits of Ms. Sunshine in the kindergarten classroom while we share our fucking toys and stick crayons up our asses while still not understanding why we get erections. This is a game where we have property, and I expect, to a certain degree, that what I make belongs to me. If you want this to be Happy Kukuo fuckwad land where we all hold hands and sing about how we are huge faggots, go ahead and make it such, but I'm not going to contribute to it.
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12.01.2015 - 18:38
लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

I've come to realize you map makers, the ones making a big deal out of nothing, truly are selfish immature children.


The only people that disagree with map makers are either mods (the problem here) and people with personal vendettas with map makers that will bitch about them at any given time (like you)
Be thankful that we actually create content for YOU to enjoy, we are literally PAYING the admins to make maps FOR YOU to enjoy, yet you act as if you were fucking entitle to our maps and it was our job to make them.

लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

Do you guys fail to realize none of this would be possible if the developers wouldn't have create this game? Instead of bitching, be thankful they allow all of us to create something because of their HARD work. You complain how difficult it is to create a map, try creating atWar.


Do you realize we pay the admins to allow us to create maps? your entire point is irrelevant as atwar isn't really free, we actually pay to use it.

लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

How would you feel if the developers decided to ban one of you guys simply because they didn't like you, but allowed other trolls to play their game. You would think it is unfair, right? If you want to ban someone because you don't like them, simply ban them from your games but don't ban them from your entire map because of personal issues. If you want to ban someone for breaking the rules on your map ban, you have every right to ban that person. But, don't forget to provide evidence(Screenshots) to any mods, if questioned about the ban.

You don't ban customers if you want to keep your business running. In your case, you aren't paying anything to me and i never promise you any service.

लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

Also, your map does not belong to you completely. I would say it belongs to the community, but you just happen to be the creator. Yes, you created the map but who is giving you the tools to create the map? If a mod decided to ban you from atWar they could potentially keep your map and allow the public to use it. You would not be able to do a thing about it. There is no official contract the map belongs to you. It's really just an illusion some of you have created in your mind.


I can always delete my maps, even hide them. can you delete or hide my maps? oh yeah you can't. Does the map have your name? nope it has mine.
your shitty attitude is only going to make map makers hide their maps, and to host them personally once in a while (kicking people like you)
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12.01.2015 - 18:59
लिखा द्वारा theFuehrer, 12.01.2015 at 18:06

snip






Congratulations you won the Queen-Leech Award
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12.01.2015 - 19:00
Goblin, Tunder and Kentucky are right here, map makers have the power over their own maps, yes the admins own atwar but this conversation was never about admins, you guys who are raging at us @Fuehrer @Khal @others are not even reading what we are complaining about, I do not see any conflict with admins since they never get involved, the problem is that the mods, who did not create the game, who do nothing but moderate the player base, are getting cocky and trying to impose more problems on a part of atwar that they dont really have power over, mods even said that they did not want some powers like the power to delete maps, clearly mods do not want to be invested in dealing with map makers but now they are interested because we are actually given some power by the admins. And now that the admins gave us banlist, now people start bitching about map makers and calling for all this change shit, people just cant get over the fact that someone other then the precious mods has some kind of power on atwar.
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12.01.2015 - 19:18
More powers to mapmakers? more mapmakers to power!!

Heil Tiktok!!
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12.01.2015 - 21:26
लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 21:18

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 11.01.2015 at 20:29

Players were complaining about being banned from maps/scenarios.
Mods asked Mapmaker to review his banlist (from maps/scenarios NOT from hosted games).


Mods should mind their own business

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 11.01.2015 at 20:29

The deal was that bans from maps/scenarios should be grounded: give a reason for ban. Acceptable reasons are those that jeopardize the games, not really because I dislike a specific player.


By banning undesirable people from my maps, i make sure other players and hosts don't have to experience the negative influence that some people can create.

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 11.01.2015 at 20:29

I personally think differently. I think that maps are something like a private property of public interest and, thus, has to be protected in both ways: guaranteeing the right of the mapmaker over it but, on the other hand, the public access to it. The only reasons, in my opinion, to restrict the access to it, are the cases in which players do not allow the public enjoying of the games, e.g. leavers, wall-fuggers, trolls, etc.


Players are not entitle to play maps that didn't existed to begin with.
what stops me from deleting my maps? what stops me from hiding them? if i didn't wanted anybody to play them there is nothing you could do about it to stop me besides hacking my account or banning me before i do harm to the maps. But that is not the case, i want people to play my maps, why does it matter if i get rid of undesirable people? people that are banned from my maps are welcome to make their own or play somebodies else maps.

TLDR: mods should mind their own business, if map makers can't block undesirable people from playing their maps: they can always use collective punishment. The people that complain about being ban from a map can always contact the map maker and try to change his mind or make their own damn maps.

Just a small reminder: banlists were implemented to avoid failed games because of leavers, trolls, wall-fuggers, etc. Not as a particular exercise of power for the sake of personal benefits. It is a tool to ensure that the community can enjoy scenarios and maps without disruption. Just ave a look at the forum posts that led to the implementation of this feature.
Mods were the first to discuss and support critically this tool. So don't tell me to mind my own business!
As Mod and Map-Maker I fully support the implementation of this feature to strengthen the community (as a whole and not the power of a few).
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12.01.2015 - 21:31
लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 21:28

i can't possible have a screen shoot (of high quality, because apprently CD doesn't accept low quality and small size) for every single one of them.

Bah! Nothing to do with low or high quality SS. Just make proper SS that is a real evidence that player is hampering the enjoyment of one of your maps. Do you know how to do it? I guess you do. You are very active in forums, map-making, gaming, etc. Don't be lazy with the bans. That's all.
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12.01.2015 - 21:49
लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:31

लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 21:28

i can't possible have a screen shoot (of high quality, because apprently CD doesn't accept low quality and small size) for every single one of them.

Bah! Nothing to do with low or high quality SS. Just make proper SS that is a real evidence that player is hampering the enjoyment of one of your maps. Do you know how to do it? I guess you do. You are very active in forums, map-making, gaming, etc. Don't be lazy with the bans. That's all.
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12.01.2015 - 21:57
लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Just a small reminder: banlists were implemented to avoid failed games because of leavers, trolls, wall-fuggers, etc. Not as a particular exercise of power for the sake of personal benefits. It is a tool to ensure that the community can enjoy scenarios and maps without disruption. Just ave a look at the forum posts that led to the implementation of this feature.
Mods were the first to discuss and support critically this tool. So don't tell me to mind my own business!
As Mod and Map-Maker I fully support the implementation of this feature to strengthen the community (as a whole and not the power of a few).


The problem is that the ban list serves to help with the reasons that you said, but taking into the very rare cases when people are banned for personal reasons makes people paranoid and focusing on personal bans. The issue is that if mods either take down the system or change it to force map makers to go to mods to approve bans or whatever crazy ideas are out there, it would mean that the minuet times of people being banned for personal reasons would outweigh the legitimate bans made by us as map makers to prevent trolls from playing. This system will never be perfect but we need something and this is the best option out there.
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12.01.2015 - 22:26
लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Just a small reminder: banlists were implemented to avoid failed games because of leavers, trolls, wall-fuggers, etc.


and that is what everybody uses them for

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Not as a particular exercise of power for the sake of personal benefits.

give me 1 example of a decent map maker doing this^

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

It is a tool to ensure that the community can enjoy scenarios and maps without disruption. Just ave a look at the forum posts that led to the implementation of this feature.
Mods were the first to discuss and support critically this tool. So don't tell me to mind my own business!


you are neither necessary or wanted to regularize ban lists, what you and other mods are doing is that every time somebody reports abuse you guys assume the map maker is abusing the feature until proven innocent, this is going to alienate all the map makers because with that mentally everybody will challenge all the bans, and some map makers haven't and will not give a flying fuck if somebody cries or not so they aren't going to provide you with evidence.

right now you are being as ambiguous as fucking possible, you haven't taken any stance besides talking like a diplomat and saying "everything is ok and the best decision will be made, plz move along and this never happen".

There is 3 stances about bans:

1.- Map makers are guilty until proven innocent (this is what mods are doing, which is bullshit, and this stance has already been proven to be completely wrong)
2.- Map makers own the custom maps, therefore they have the final decision of who plays it or not (most makers support this stance)
3.- Status quo: map maker bans can only be challenge in the special forum section dedicated to this matter (private reports don't count)
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12.01.2015 - 23:01
 Desu
लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 22:26

1.- Map makers are guilty until proven innocent (this is what mods are doing, which is bullshit, and this stance has already been proven to be completely wrong)

Incorrect.

This is not what mods are after.

Scenario:
- An assumed trouble maker is put on a map makers ban list, and the map maker is perfectly fine doing that. A problem occurs when this claim is challenged, at this point I assume said trouble maker has attempted to talk to the map maker. If nothing is resolved, a third party is called, aka moderators.

The "trouble maker" in this scenario is innocent until proven guilty when your claim is challenged. I don't care what you have on your ban lists, I don't go around looking at every single one. They could all be blank for all I know. However, I am obligated to care when a complaint arises, so I'll go look, and this is when you can display a simple screen shot substantiating your claim. With that screen shot I can tell the plaintiff to go away. Problem solved.

There is one stance about ban lists:
- Map makers are free to do what they wish. When someone disagrees with something they have done, the burden is on the map maker to justify their actions.

Solution: Stop being unprepared.

Re-read my post from the first page:
लिखा द्वारा Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:09

A case of being unprepared.

Is it too much to just press prt sc on the keyboard, open paint, press ctrl-v, and save it after the game is finished? There's also the windows snipping tool built into all windows computers. And there's so many online screen shot programs that you can download and basically just press one button and it'll take and save for you, even upload for you. This is 2015.

Moderators mediate when there's a lot of complaints, we will look at both sides. Remember that map makers that add a name to their ban list are making a claim. The burden is on the map maker to substantiate said claim when refuted.

I've been repeating myself over and over.
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12.01.2015 - 23:20
लिखा द्वारा Quantum027, 12.01.2015 at 21:57

The issue is that if mods either take down the system or change it to force map makers to go to mods to approve bans...

None of these options have been considered. As Mod and map-maker I oppose both of them.
लिखा द्वारा Quantum027, 12.01.2015 at 21:57

This system will never be perfect but we need something and this is the best option out there.

You are definitely right. Fully agree.
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12.01.2015 - 23:31
लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 22:26

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Just a small reminder: banlists were implemented to avoid failed games because of leavers, trolls, wall-fuggers, etc.


and that is what everybody uses them for

Not really. There are many bans that are insulting and have absolutely no legit foundation beyond "I don't like this player so he is banned from my maps".

लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 22:26

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Not as a particular exercise of power for the sake of personal benefits.

give me 1 example of a decent map maker doing this^


There are many and you know that. No reason to go into details... some "reasons" given by some respected map-makers:
  • Allyfag
  • NULL
  • Stinky
  • You lack the skill to play my maps properly, sorry
  • Pre-emptive ban for being in the reich
  • Pre-emptive ban to prevent trolling
  • My Finger slipped
  • #Lol
  • Tried to ally germany as france. Plays tempted rp.

And I could go on...

लिखा द्वारा Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 22:26

लिखा द्वारा Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

It is a tool to ensure that the community can enjoy scenarios and maps without disruption. Just ave a look at the forum posts that led to the implementation of this feature.
Mods were the first to discuss and support critically this tool. So don't tell me to mind my own business!


you are neither necessary or wanted to regularize ban lists, what you and other mods are doing is that every time somebody reports abuse you guys assume the map maker is abusing the feature until proven innocent, this is going to alienate all the map makers because with that mentally everybody will challenge all the bans, and some map makers haven't and will not give a flying fuck if somebody cries or not so they aren't going to provide you with evidence.

right now you are being as ambiguous as fucking possible, you haven't taken any stance besides talking like a diplomat and saying "everything is ok and the best decision will be made, plz move along and this never happen".

There is 3 stances about bans:

1.- Map makers are guilty until proven innocent (this is what mods are doing, which is bullshit, and this stance has already been proven to be completely wrong)
2.- Map makers own the custom maps, therefore they have the final decision of who plays it or not (most makers support this stance)
3.- Status quo: map maker bans can only be challenge in the special forum section dedicated to this matter (private reports don't count)

See Desu's comment.
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13.01.2015 - 00:47
Lol, is this suggestion serious?
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