Strategies 2018

It's that time again now that we've finally got admin attention. First things first I think we can safely rule out any changes for imperialist, perfect defence, naval commander and great combinator. All those strategies are in great shape atm. LB and DS need nerfs. RA, HW, MoS and Blitz need boosts. Everything else is up for debate. I'm just going to summarize what ideas have been put out in the past year and the discussions regarding them.



Lucky Bastard(LB):

+10 cost to infantry OR
-1 range to Infantry

These ideas came from the previous lb discussion threads. I was discussing this with witch doctor recently. I favoured the crit nerf at the time but he pointed out that people are mainly playing lb for the added range. A crit nerf of higher than -5 would be required to make any noticeable difference. The range nerf would help but i personally dont think it'll fix the lb problem. I'm favouring the inf cost change now.

There's also an alternative solution but it may be unpopular. We could reinvent the strat and move away from criticals to att/def boosts or maybe +1hp like some sort of halfway expensive ironfist. Personally i think criticals are cancerous from a competitive standpoint and because of the meta this strat has created i would argue against ever significantly boosting a strategie's crits again. I know however that some people may enjoy the higher random aspect. Opinions/ideas?

Desert Storm(DS):

-1 def to helis

The latter idea came from tact. I prefer it as it's the infantry strats that are struggling vs ds. A direct heli def nerf just weakens that strat where it is already weak. At the moment it is a very specific niche which ds is dominating. Everywhere else it ranges from bad-average.



Master of Stealth:

-10 cost to infantry.

Open to ideas here. An mos boost is long overdue. It used to dominate 50k games but that changes with the rise of lb. People often exaggerate its world game power but competent players who know how to ferret out marine maneuvers shut the strat down. I'd like to see it made semi viable on mid range fund tiers like sky menace. I've 800 duels to my name and I've seen others use it maybe 5 times? We need to brainstorm some ideas here. I'm not sold on the inf att/def change anymore but we can try it if people want.

Guerilla Warfare(GW):

Restore naval transport cost to 220

Blitzkrieg:

+1 range to all units

The idea is to improve upon the strats unique playstyle as a counter to defensive players.

Iron fist(IF):

+1 range to militia.

This was suggested 5 years ago but not implemented as it was too controversial. Almost all the strategies have been boosted since then and now iron fist finds itself in competition with lb. This will give the strat the ability to use its militia to wall.

Hybrid Warfare(HW):

+1 air transport capacity.

A suggestion from Don. I'm not a big hw player so I'm unsure where to go with this strat and i didn't find any discussion on boosts. Also i think it's time the sp purchase cost was reduced.

Sky Menace(HW):

+2 crit to infantry

I personally am not sure if this strat needs a boost but many people are asking for 1. It definitely has fallen off in terms of popularity but I am not convinced this is due to strength. Feel free to throw out other suggestions.

Relentless Attack:

+1 range to infantry AND +1 att+range to militia

RA isnt bad in its current form but ds does what it tries to do better. RA however is a cheaper alternative and can be scary in certain situations. The ability to contest expansions t1 is essential in this meta so imo the inf boost is needed. Perhaps something else too. Ideas?

Great Combinator:
+1 def to inf vs tanks
Destroyers: -3 def +1hp -20 cost
Submarines: -3 att +2 def -20 cost

Discuss and i'll update the thread accordingly!

Erhmagaawrd why a new thread? Again......

Dont change IF... you noobs dont even (know how to) play it.

Just nerf LB and DS, and perhaps the GW buff that wasn't needed, dont boost anything.

Boost MoS

लिखा द्वारा BannedFor1Year, 04.11.2018 at 07:33

Boost MoS

Cool name!
---
Guys, I'd appreciate if we can keep this thread healthy. Some suggestions to avoid derailing it:

1. Everybody's opinion matters (even if they disagree with you).
2. Upvote the posts that better represents your opinion for the changes. We'll definitively review the higher upvoted ones.
3. If you can't convince someone in 1 post to change stance, PLEASE STOP.

Obviously feel free to message or interact with anyone else through PMs, in-game or any other way if you want to understand that person's stance or vise-versa. That discussion doesn't necessarily needs to happen in this thread.

Looking forward to see how this thread goes! Thanks Laochra for making it!

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 04.11.2018 at 07:56

लिखा द्वारा BannedFor1Year, 04.11.2018 at 07:33

Boost MoS

Cool name!
---
Guys, I'd appreciate if we can keep this thread healthy. Some suggestions to avoid derailing it:

1. Everybody's opinion matters (even if they disagree with you).
2. Upvote the posts that better represents your opinion for the changes. We'll definitively review the higher upvoted ones.
3. If you can't convince someone in 1 post to change stance, PLEASE STOP.

Obviously feel free to message or interact with anyone else through PMs, in-game or any other way if you want to understand that person's stance or vise-versa. That discussion doesn't necessarily needs to happen in this thread.

Looking forward to see how this thread goes! Thanks Laochra for making it!

Thank you

Lucky Bastard(LB): +10 cost to infantry
Desert Storm(DS): -1 def to helis vs infantry
Master of Stealth: -1 attack +1 defence to infantry
Guerilla Warfare(GW): reduce transport range and cost
Blitzkrieg: +1 range to all units
Iron fist(IF): +1 range to militia.
Hybrid Warfare(HW): + 4 critical to militia , -30 cost to Anti-aircraft and + 2 range to Anti-aircraft, and - 1 defense to anti-aircraft.
-> I feel that HW should affect more unit and give a better surprise to the enemy.
Sky Menace(HW): + 2 crit to Infantry
Relentless Attack: +1 attack + 1 range militia and +1 range infantry.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

It's that time again now that we've finally got admin attention. First things first I think we can safely rule out any changes for imperialist, perfect defence, naval commander and great combinator. All those strategies are in great shape atm. LB and DS need nerfs. RA, HW, MoS and Blitz need boosts. Everything else is up for debate. I'm just going to summarize what ideas have been put out in the past year and the discussions regarding them.

NERFS

Lucky Bastard(LB):

-3 crit to infantry OR
+10 cost to infantry OR
-1 range to Infantry

What about +10 cost overall? I can't remember the old meta now that its been so long, but I thought LB used to be only be +10 cost to all units with the additional crit? Someone who has better memory can correct me on this

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Hybrid Warfare(HW):

+1 air transport capacity.

A suggestion from Don. I'm not a big hw player so I'm unsure where to go with this strat and i didn't find any discussion on boosts. Also i think it's time the sp purchase cost was reduced.

Sky Menace(HW):

+1 inf att

I personally am not sure if this strat needs a boost but many people are asking for 1. It definitely has fallen off in terms of popularity but I am not convinced this is due to strength. Feel free to throw out other suggestions.

HW does not need a boost, as I feel it would actually weaken the strat if we changed it from its current state. It would allow for more people to play it, which I feel defeats the whole purpose of HW. It's supposed to not be widely used, or else it would cost 10x less lol. It's strong as it is if you know what you're doing, so I feel any change would only make it more playable, which takes away from its "mystic" qualities if you will.

Similar logic for SM. SM is fine, and I honestly have no idea where people are coming from saying it needs a boost. SM is still to this day a strong ukraine, which is where it is primarily used in competitive world. World games SM can be quite strong still due to the cheaper planes and nice range it gives. No change here if u ask me

लिखा द्वारा Sultan of Swing, 04.11.2018 at 08:39

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

It's that time again now that we've finally got admin attention. First things first I think we can safely rule out any changes for imperialist, perfect defence, naval commander and great combinator. All those strategies are in great shape atm. LB and DS need nerfs. RA, HW, MoS and Blitz need boosts. Everything else is up for debate. I'm just going to summarize what ideas have been put out in the past year and the discussions regarding them.

NERFS

Lucky Bastard(LB):

-3 crit to infantry OR
+10 cost to infantry OR
-1 range to Infantry

What about +10 cost overall? I can't remember the old meta now that its been so long, but I thought LB used to be only be +10 cost to all units with the additional crit? Someone who has better memory can correct me on this

Lucky Bastard once had +10 cost to infantry and militia.

Even tho i disagree with most of these buffs, how about we divide nerfs and buffs in two different "patches".

Nerfing strategies that are considered OP while buffing others will probably just make them switch places, unless you buff it perfectly ofc. So how about we do the necessary nerfs right now, then wait and see in what order strategies are gonna stand and whats the balance of them, and after a while if there is any need for buffs to balance strategies out, we do that.

P.S. After nerf i dont mean to wait a year for us to kick in with buffs. A month or even less should be enough.

लिखा द्वारा Sultan of Swing, 04.11.2018 at 08:39

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

It's that time again now that we've finally got admin attention. First things first I think we can safely rule out any changes for imperialist, perfect defence, naval commander and great combinator. All those strategies are in great shape atm. LB and DS need nerfs. RA, HW, MoS and Blitz need boosts. Everything else is up for debate. I'm just going to summarize what ideas have been put out in the past year and the discussions regarding them.

NERFS

Lucky Bastard(LB):

-3 crit to infantry OR
+10 cost to infantry OR
-1 range to Infantry

What about +10 cost overall? I can't remember the old meta now that its been so long, but I thought LB used to be only be +10 cost to all units with the additional crit? Someone who has better memory can correct me on this

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Hybrid Warfare(HW):

+1 air transport capacity.

A suggestion from Don. I'm not a big hw player so I'm unsure where to go with this strat and i didn't find any discussion on boosts. Also i think it's time the sp purchase cost was reduced.

Sky Menace(HW):

+1 inf att

I personally am not sure if this strat needs a boost but many people are asking for 1. It definitely has fallen off in terms of popularity but I am not convinced this is due to strength. Feel free to throw out other suggestions.

HW does not need a boost, as I feel it would actually weaken the strat if we changed it from its current state. It would allow for more people to play it, which I feel defeats the whole purpose of HW. It's supposed to not be widely used, or else it would cost 10x less lol. It's strong as it is if you know what you're doing, so I feel any change would only make it more playable, which takes away from its "mystic" qualities if you will.

Similar logic for SM. SM is fine, and I honestly have no idea where people are coming from saying it needs a boost. SM is still to this day a strong ukraine, which is where it is primarily used in competitive world. World games SM can be quite strong still due to the cheaper planes and nice range it gives. No change here if u ask me

लिखा द्वारा Waffel, 04.11.2018 at 07:33

Dont change IF... you noobs dont even (know how to) play it.

For the love of everything good in life IF does not need a change. Here's my reasoning:
1) you can already wall with militia.. just use an AT or a general, and np.
2) Militia are useable, especially making Germany superior IF location: All you gotta do is get ur militia from scandinavia to a boat right by berlin, and you can pull lots of cheap units into ur cap / leipzig reaches too with gen
3) IF is strong strategy already in current meta. Any boost would make it just another over powered strategy like the 90 tank 10 attack RA boost (lols).

In my opinion (on top of what Lao has already mentioned shuold be untouched strategies) I feel HW, IF, SM, and MoS should remain untouched. MoS is basically None strategy with cheaper marines. Therefore it's already op in that it has no nerfs. If we boost it even more its just gonna be crazzzzzy. It's forever an op world game strategy, and is stronk for ukraine, germany, spain, and united kingdom in competitive.

लिखा द्वारा Htin, 04.11.2018 at 08:43

लिखा द्वारा Sultan of Swing, 04.11.2018 at 08:39

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

What about +10 cost overall? I can't remember the old meta now that its been so long, but I thought LB used to be only be +10 cost to all units with the additional crit? Someone who has better memory can correct me on this

Lucky Bastard once had +10 cost to infantry and militia.

I support this

Lucky Bastard(LB):

-3 crit to infantry


Desert Storm(DS):

-1 def to helis

Guys, do bare-in-mind that DS is specifically Anti-meta in nature, nerfing it will just mean it's replaced by some other easily-exploitable strategy (Blitz, GC, or RA if boosts go through) to counteract Turkey.

I agree with your Blitz suggestion, but I would also lower the cost on transport units: I've played a few test matches wherein if I play something like Sweden or Italy Blitz, I have access to nearly the entire map T1, and as such can preemptively wall cities I want my allies to take along with creating long, annoying walls in very odd places of the map to counter most expansions. I believe this is the playstyle Blitz needs to go for; Lots of range, being a big nuisance.

IF Militia range boost? That's defeating the purpose of the strategy imo. If anything, give defensive units more defense (or everything +2 HP instead) to further buckle-down on the turtle concept the strategy has presented as of late.

GW seems to be in a fine place for me; The fact that you guys let that strat be meta for six straight years is disturbing. Keep in in tier-2 and let other strats replace it for while.

HW has not been "solved" yet to the best of my knowledge, IE I'm not sure what playstyle it has. It's just such an odd and confusing strategy. But definitely make it cheaper. Does anyone have a good summary of the playstyle with this strategy?

Anyhow, good list. I think EU+ should be looked at (Make East less shit imo) before going too crazy with balancing, but good nonetheless.

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 04.11.2018 at 09:09

HW has not been "solved" yet to the best of my knowledge, IE I'm not sure what playstyle it has. It's just such an odd and confusing strategy. But definitely make it cheaper. Does anyone have a good summary of the playstyle with this strategy?

its been solved, just learn2play bro

Blitz +2 range
SM +1 defence to inf instead of +1 attack, no one sends more than 6 infs to a city

लिखा द्वारा Sultan of Swing, 04.11.2018 at 09:17

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 04.11.2018 at 09:09

HW has not been "solved" yet to the best of my knowledge, IE I'm not sure what playstyle it has. It's just such an odd and confusing strategy. But definitely make it cheaper. Does anyone have a good summary of the playstyle with this strategy?

its been solved, just learn2play bro

Bro then tell me your knowledge! Ha, the strategy is so damn confusing I swear; I really cannot find a niche for it. It's like that off-brand dish soap you buy from Dollar General; It doesn't smell like of formaldehyde thankfully, but it keeps leaving residue all over your almond collection! What do you do with the soap, Sultan?

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 04.11.2018 at 09:22

लिखा द्वारा Sultan of Swing, 04.11.2018 at 09:17

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 04.11.2018 at 09:09

HW has not been "solved" yet to the best of my knowledge, IE I'm not sure what playstyle it has. It's just such an odd and confusing strategy. But definitely make it cheaper. Does anyone have a good summary of the playstyle with this strategy?

its been solved, just learn2play bro

Bro then tell me your knowledge! Ha, the strategy is so damn confusing I swear; I really cannot find a niche for it. It's like that off-brand dish soap you buy from Dollar General; It doesn't smell like of formaldehyde thankfully, but it keeps leaving residue all over your almond collection! What do you do with the soap, Sultan?

Ask don D if u want to learn hw

MoS is at this point a very mobile and offensive strategy.
Including upgrades, submarines have very high range and a capacity of 4.
Stealths are thanks to the -30 cost upgrade almost as cost efficient as SM Bombers and have identical range. Marines are almost as cost-efficient as GC Tanks.
If you give MoS infantry +1 Def they will have GC-like defence capabilities.
MoS would come out as the #1 choice for world games and only thing that this boost achieves in terms of balance is making it more suitable for Europe+.

I suggest rather balancing around MoS militia, which won't change MoS lategame significantly while still boosting it in a Europe+ setting.
Or give a infantry a slight crit boost, but that will once again do hardly anything for MoS in Europe+.
MoS is a very hard strategy to balance, since it's already a powerful world game strategy.
If you guys really want to stick with the infantry defence boost you have to at least weaken MoS offence capabilities.

About IF, agree with the + 1 range for mil, essential, but maybe balance it - 1 attack for milicians.

Otherwise u'll find big stacks of milicians that, even if they cannot move that much, will be used for big rushes attacks, with the op rolls from IF.

And i love IF so i'm just saying it to be fair.

I dont think +1 range for blitz will actually do anything
more like +2 range
or +1 deff for militia

+1 range for IF militia very useful it gets very tedious using gen range to wall with militia particularly in scenarios.

+1 range to blitz doesnt really change much of its weaknesses perhaps +1 attack to inf instead?

I was about to say the same thing as Steve. Let's begin with the nerfs and start boosting according to the new meta accordingly.

Regarding LB - the strategy provides right now excellent mobility attack and defence at rich spots. Since we already have plenty of defensive and high range strategies I think we should keep it as offensive one but making it way weaker - what I'm trying to say is lower some of its critical but mainly its infanatry defence. not less than 2 orelse it will remain the same which is why its biggest fans want minor crtical reduce so they can continue this for years to come. We had 2 years of it it's time to move on.

As for Desert Storm I get the gag is powerful antimeta helicopters. But its ability to navigate and do 2 things (assault and expand) at the same time makes it degenrate. I would drasticlly low its range and make it up a little with extra militia range.

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 04.11.2018 at 07:56

लिखा द्वारा BannedFor1Year, 04.11.2018 at 07:33

Boost MoS

Cool name!
---
Guys, I'd appreciate if we can keep this thread healthy. Some suggestions to avoid derailing it:

1. Everybody's opinion matters (even if they disagree with you).
2. Upvote the posts that better represents your opinion for the changes. We'll definitively review the higher upvoted ones.
3. If you can't convince someone in 1 post to change stance, PLEASE STOP.

Obviously feel free to message or interact with anyone else through PMs, in-game or any other way if you want to understand that person's stance or vise-versa. That discussion doesn't necessarily needs to happen in this thread.

Looking forward to see how this thread goes! Thanks Laochra for making it!

Sorry but did you seriously just say we review the higher upvoted ones? So now every person can get an influence on the strategy chances by just basically farming upvotes? Rip knowledge and common sense... dear god..

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 04.11.2018 at 09:44

About IF, agree with the + 1 range for mil, essential, but maybe balance it - 1 attack for milicians.

Otherwise u'll find big stacks of milicians that, even if they cannot move that much, will be used for big rushes attacks, with the op rolls from IF.

And i love IF so i'm just saying it to be fair.

dont change IF

लिखा द्वारा Waffel, 04.11.2018 at 12:32

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 04.11.2018 at 07:56

लिखा द्वारा BannedFor1Year, 04.11.2018 at 07:33

Boost MoS

Cool name!
---
Guys, I'd appreciate if we can keep this thread healthy. Some suggestions to avoid derailing it:

1. Everybody's opinion matters (even if they disagree with you).
2. Upvote the posts that better represents your opinion for the changes. We'll definitively review the higher upvoted ones.
3. If you can't convince someone in 1 post to change stance, PLEASE STOP.

Obviously feel free to message or interact with anyone else through PMs, in-game or any other way if you want to understand that person's stance or vise-versa. That discussion doesn't necessarily needs to happen in this thread.

Looking forward to see how this thread goes! Thanks Laochra for making it!

Sorry but did you seriously just say we review the higher upvoted ones? So now every person can get an influence on the strategy chances by just basically farming upvotes? Rip knowledge and common sense... dear god..

upvoted

लिखा द्वारा lsilorien, 04.11.2018 at 12:15

+1 range for IF militia very useful it gets very tedious using gen range to wall with militia particularly in scenarios.

make scenario with +1 militia range?

Nerf boost nerf boost nerf boost it'll never end. just leave what's not broken alone and make a couple of new ones to satisfy the minority

I agree with most of it honestly. As a long time LB player I believe the one thing that makes it "UNIQUE" is the fact that it can have OP rolls. Don't take the one thing away that could be a game changer. But it is definitely very OP right now
Might I suggest +25 unit cost to all units instead of its original +10. Keep the critical and range chance the same. But make it more expensive because having a 60 cost infantry that can roll a 16 is just absurd. It needs to be more pricey than that. High risk high reward strat.

I'll throw my hat into the ring here. Can't say much about all strats though.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Lucky Bastard(LB):

-3 crit to infantry OR
+10 cost to infantry OR
-1 range to Infantry

Agree with the +10 cost one. Maybe +15?
Nothing else seems to work to balance this out.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Master of Stealth:

-1 attack +1 defence to infantry OR
-10 cost to infantry.

This strategy definitely needs a boost, and -10 cost to infantry seems pretty fitting! (slightly similar to PD then, though)

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Blitzkrieg:

+1 range to all units

The idea is to improve upon the strats unique playstyle as a counter to defensive players.

I highly disagree with boosting this strategy, it seems pretty good already. The -1 DEF is a big but seemingly balanced disadvantage. More range and this strategy would dominate all large-scale maps.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Iron fist(IF):

+1 range to militia.

I agree with most opinions here: adding range to militia units kinda defeats this strategy's point. Give this strategy militia walls and the world will end as we know it.
If you want to buff it, how about -5 to -10 cost for militia?

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Sky Menace(HW):

+1 inf att

I feel like this strategy could do with a small boost, indeed. +1 ATK to Inf seems absolutely useless for this strategy. How about cheaper marines? I can image a true Sky Menace to include parachuting stealth units. Combining the air superiority with Ground: Stealth units seems quiet frightening and intriguing.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 04.11.2018 at 07:25

Relentless Attack:

+1 range to infantry

Looks interesting: +1 ATK to Militia
Or more crit for destroyers? More range for destroyers?
What about more range for Naval: Transports?!

Lucky Bastard(LB): +10 cost to infantry
Desert Storm(DS): -1 def to helis
Master of Stealth: -10 cost to marines +1 defence to infantry
Guerilla Warfare(GW): +2 transport range and +1 millitia def in city
Blitzkrieg: - 1 range to all units +1 def to all units
Iron fist(IF): +1 range to militia.

लिखा द्वारा El Serbio, 04.11.2018 at 16:17

Lucky Bastard(LB): +10 cost to infantry
Desert Storm(DS): -1 def to helis
Master of Stealth: -10 cost to marines +1 defence to infantry
Guerilla Warfare(GW): +2 transport range and +1 millitia def in city
Blitzkrieg: - 1 range to all units +1 def to all units
Iron fist(IF): +1 range to militia.

sounds good