I've lost my faith in the dueling community.

Ever since I started Atwar, it has never been so difficult for me to get a duel. The lack of available duels have gotten so bad that I've completely lost all faith in dueling.

Trying to find a duel with anybody is a pain that is probably isn't worth the fun of playing the duel. I would sit in a room for hours as random people wander in and out, none of them duel-able for several reasons.

1. Their elo is too low and I literally gain less than 1 elo or even 0 elo when I win.
2. They are below rank 5 and belong in the beginner lobby.

It has become plainly obvious why it is increasingly hard for me to find duels.

A. People are too stingy about their elo. A number that is next to worthless appearing next to their name when you click on it. Quite honestly, people are so afraid to lose their elo that they refuse to take any duel where they could possibly lose. People's elo mean almost nothing to me, you can be a great player with subpar elo for all I care.
Is this really the mentality you want to have as a competitive player? What kind of competitive player refuses to challenge themselves and only play it safe. What do you learn playing the same noobs over and over? Almost nothing and you reinforce bad habits that will hurt your chances when you play an actual opponent.
----------------- Yes I understand that people like clovis wants to preserve their elo, but clovis wont even 1v1 me anymore. I also get that people like Laochra are incredibly busy and can't always be available for duels.

B. People are afraid to challenge themselves.
I've noticed that everybody, including myself at one point, decides to play it safe and never play a game that is too challenging. Stop playing it safe and take a risk for once.


Basically what I observed from all of this is that:
Dueling and competitive play have become more about winning safe games and getting better numbers than improving yourselves as a player.

Can we all stop playing it safe and letting dueling stagnate?

This rant is probably going to change nothing since it is human nature to focus more on the negative aspects of things. A loss duel hurts a lot more than a dozen winning ones.

PS. Thanks to all the people who will duel anybody without regards for their elo and focus on improving themselves rather than pad a worthless number.
- Jfreder
- Mecoy
- Plato

I don't think the problem is that you can't find enough players to duel but you aren't able to find players with high enough ELO to duel. Many of the players in the top 50 in terms of ELO are inactive, myself included. Take me for example, I went inactive as soon as I reached my current ELO peak, now that I'm temporarily active again, I'm rusty as hell and don't feel on a level playground dueling before I got used to the game.

Nonetheless, I believe this is something we cannot solve by complaining about, it's a necessary phase in the competitive scene, players in the Top 50 are going to need to be replaced and it's got to be done faster than they leave, or else the current stagnation of overall ELO is going to remain.

It's just completely natural when you only want to play certain specific settings

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 21.05.2016 at 22:35

It's just completely natural when you only want to play certain specific settings

Ok let me try to duel on other maps. I wonder if my luck will change.

लिखा द्वारा ROYAL, 21.05.2016 at 22:45

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 21.05.2016 at 22:35

It's just completely natural when you only want to play certain specific settings

Ok let me try to duel on other maps. I wonder if my luck will change.

Commando posted this SS in global some few hours ago. I think there is your problem.

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 21.05.2016 at 22:48

लिखा द्वारा ROYAL, 21.05.2016 at 22:45

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 21.05.2016 at 22:35

It's just completely natural when you only want to play certain specific settings

Ok let me try to duel on other maps. I wonder if my luck will change.

Commando posted this SS in global some few hours ago. I think there is your problem.

Godenkind refuses to duel me because one of the aforementioned reason.
Rush dragon for much of the same.

The two ended up dueling eachother.

Whenever I join say godenkind's game, he pretends to be afk or leaves.

Cause people noticed that you are using bugs

I was thinking this myself. People are too scared to lose their elo. The way I see it, is if you can't keep your elo you shouldn't have it(considering you actively duel). If your skill level is not high enough to retain your elo you should pass it on. If a rank 5 beats me with 1200 elo, I lose 20 elo. If that happens I know my current skill level is not high enough to retain my elo at the time. So eventually the more you play the more your elo balancees out to your skill level.

I just think that as you told,,you guys go afk when you make duels,and people leave your duel....

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

Then memorise a better expansion if it is that simple.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 22.05.2016 at 05:29

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

Then memorise a better expansion if it is that simple.

I plan using my memory on other things. Thank you for your offer, though.

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

Expansion is 10% of play. You can beat someone without a t1 just because you have a concentration of troops and you can counter their expansion.

As I say "t1 not needed"

लिखा द्वारा ROYAL, 21.05.2016 at 21:58

the only reason i caught you for a duel the other night was because i couldnt sleep, it was 4am, i never see you duel when im on, you even made this post at 4am for me, very offpeak hours. Get a better timezone/workschedule!

लिखा द्वारा JF., 22.05.2016 at 05:34

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

Expansion is 10% of play. You can beat someone without a t1 just because you have a concentration of troops and you can counter their expansion.

As I say "t1 not needed"

I am not only talking about T1, but about all the early turns in which most of the people memorize rushes, latemoves, stacking etc...

लिखा द्वारा JF., 22.05.2016 at 05:34

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

Expansion is 10% of play.

It's a well-know fact that a good Turn 1 expansion can define the game.

... can't remember where did I read that, but Im sure it was in a guide. I'm not saying that you can't win without having a Turn 1 or having a very bad one, but most of the times chances are that you will lose.

... unless the other person is considerably below your skill level.

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 22.05.2016 at 05:46

It's a well-know fact that a good Turn 1 expansion can define the game.

lol no, not unless you are right beside your opponent and expand into them. Stop supporting the trash/excuses posted by your clanmates, you are stalling their growth as players. If they played eu+ more it would help their overall skills. Then you wouldn't have to resort to spamming 5k cws(the only settings they can play) to raise your clan elo.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 22.05.2016 at 06:12

Then you wouldn't have to resort to spamming 5k cws(the only settings they can play)

We've just beat MK the other day in North America. We're also 5-3 in ancient and with a positive W:L score in any other setting than the standard one.

Rest is just an old discussion. Personally I won't force anyone to play what they don't want.

I personally love to duel,if you see my duels I play guys who most of the players wouldn't because they know they will lose.

Furthermore if you see my duels again you will see that even if I lose a dozen of duels I keep dueling even if I reach a high elo peak.

I'm open for duels with anyone just find me at a time that I can play.

Why don t u do 1v1 ? If indeed u don t care about ELO, what's the difference for you ?

You will notice 1v1 fill up a lot quicker

You're welcome

Case closed

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 22.05.2016 at 06:12

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 22.05.2016 at 05:46

It's a well-know fact that a good Turn 1 expansion can define the game.

lol no, not unless you are right beside your opponent and expand into them. Stop supporting the trash/excuses posted by your clanmates, you are stalling their growth as players. If they played eu+ more it would help their overall skills. Then you wouldn't have to resort to spamming 5k cws(the only settings they can play) to raise your clan elo.

Just lol Lao, are you part of that Eur 10K sect too?

I yet have to hear a credible justification how CW 10K is more about skills than 5K or 3K. The only fact is 80-90% of high ranks ONLY knows about Eur 10K and completely suck at all the rest.

So please enough with the "skills" argument, just because u played the same settings 2000 times and other people dont want to bother doesnt make u more "skilled"

Any map any settings is a lot about getting to know it (ie practice). Just because the sheep herd is following some old manuscripts (written in most cases by below par players) saying 10k is better doesn t mean it is actually better

Cheers

If 10k is memorization then 5k and 3k is luck :s

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

i have been telling that for ages.Besides that you also are a 5k fag lets not forget that.5k is also same moves.Basically this whole game is same moves again and again.Also 10k europe is luck.If you guess right what your enemy will do.Same for whole game.

लिखा द्वारा Nations, 22.05.2016 at 08:33

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

i have been telling that for ages.Besides that you also are a 5k fag lets not forget that.5k is also same moves.Basically this whole game is same moves again and again.Also 10k europe is luck.If you guess right what your enemy will do.Same for whole game.

I am not a 'fag' and I played by far more maps and settings than you did, so you can't call me world 50k, 5k, eu, scenario or whatever fag.

लिखा द्वारा Kraigg, 22.05.2016 at 08:20

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 22.05.2016 at 06:12

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 22.05.2016 at 05:46

It's a well-know fact that a good Turn 1 expansion can define the game.

lol no, not unless you are right beside your opponent and expand into them. Stop supporting the trash/excuses posted by your clanmates, you are stalling their growth as players. If they played eu+ more it would help their overall skills. Then you wouldn't have to resort to spamming 5k cws(the only settings they can play) to raise your clan elo.

Just lol Lao, are you part of that Eur 10K sect too?

I yet have to hear a credible justification how CW 10K is more about skills than 5K or 3K. The only fact is 80-90% of high ranks ONLY knows about Eur 10K and completely suck at all the rest.

So please enough with the "skills" argument, just because u played the same settings 2000 times and other people dont want to bother doesnt make u more "skilled"

Any map any settings is a lot about getting to know it (ie practice). Just because the sheep herd is following some old manuscripts (written in most cases by below par players) saying 10k is better doesn t mean it is actually better

Cheers

The argument is old, it just comes that since Europe is the standard you can find any type of people in there. All the major duelists plays the map, so you learn at a higher level compared to other maps where not so many strong people plays (i.e for each 1 good ancient player, you can find 5 or 6 good Europe players).

Some people argued in the past that it's due to Europe's geographic that requires you to perform maneuvers in order to get the best of it, compared to other maps whereas you can reach your destiny with just a straight line (i.e to go to Scandinavia from Germany you have to do some tricks with the sea trans, but in ancient to go from Sparta to Carthage is mostly a straight line).

Proof that Europe players manages the dynamics better than other type of players is the fact that Stryko as eu player won the ancient tournament. I won the second place, and Zone (which was the only one who constantly played Ancient at that time) scored number 3. This isn't limited to ancient though, In all Tournaments, niche players who comes from another place than Europe usually scores a low ranking.

(Still loved how Stryko joined a ww1 for his first time and got reck by a lower rank while playing a supposedly better pick. In fact, most of Europe players seems to fail when you changed their default units. I believe that's why scenario players laugh so much at their "Eu skills").

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 22.05.2016 at 09:22

(Still loved how Stryko joined a ww1 for his first time and got reck by a lower rank while playing a supposedly better pick. In fact, most of Europe players seems to fail when you changed their default units. I believe that's why scenario players laugh so much at their "Eu skills").

This is a good point, like in the build menu only the raw stats for each unit are displayed. To find out about defence bonuses and stuff, or too look up the units your opponent is using you've got to go and look at the description in the units tab which has about a gazillion units in, most of which are duplicates of each other. By the time you find and look up all the units you need to you've lost most of your movement time.

लिखा द्वारा ROYAL, 21.05.2016 at 21:58

Ever since I started Atwar, it has never been so difficult for me to get a duel. The lack of available duels have gotten so bad that I've completely lost all faith in dueling.

Trying to find a duel with anybody is a pain that is probably isn't worth the fun of playing the duel. I would sit in a room for hours as random people wander in and out, none of them duel-able for several reasons.

1. Their elo is too low and I literally gain less than 1 elo or even 0 elo when I win.
2. They are below rank 5 and belong in the beginner lobby.

It has become plainly obvious why it is increasingly hard for me to find duels.

A. People are too stingy about their elo. A number that is next to worthless appearing next to their name when you click on it. Quite honestly, people are so afraid to lose their elo that they refuse to take any duel where they could possibly lose. People's elo mean almost nothing to me, you can be a great player with subpar elo for all I care.
Is this really the mentality you want to have as a competitive player? What kind of competitive player refuses to challenge themselves and only play it safe. What do you learn playing the same noobs over and over? Almost nothing and you reinforce bad habits that will hurt your chances when you play an actual opponent.
----------------- Yes I understand that people like clovis wants to preserve their elo, but clovis wont even 1v1 me anymore. I also get that people like Laochra are incredibly busy and can't always be available for duels.

B. People are afraid to challenge themselves.
I've noticed that everybody, including myself at one point, decides to play it safe and never play a game that is too challenging. Stop playing it safe and take a risk for once.


Basically what I observed from all of this is that:
Dueling and competitive play have become more about winning safe games and getting better numbers than improving yourselves as a player.

Can we all stop playing it safe and letting dueling stagnate?

This rant is probably going to change nothing since it is human nature to focus more on the negative aspects of things. A loss duel hurts a lot more than a dozen winning ones.

PS. Thanks to all the people who will duel anybody without regards for their elo and focus on improving themselves rather than pad a worthless number.
- Jfreder
- Mecoy
- Plato

Nice new name... Its my old one, enjoy.

Also idgaf about elo, hence why its so shit. Maybe trophies can be allocated via a league in future whereby all participants have to play a minimum amount of other participants. Would be a more accurate representation of who I better than who.. But Clovis would still win

लिखा द्वारा Kraigg, 22.05.2016 at 08:20

Just lol Lao, are you part of that Eur 10K sect too?

I yet have to hear a credible justification how CW 10K is more about skills than 5K or 3K. The only fact is 80-90% of high ranks ONLY knows about Eur 10K and completely suck at all the rest.

So please enough with the "skills" argument, just because u played the same settings 2000 times and other people dont want to bother doesnt make u more "skilled"

Any map any settings is a lot about getting to know it (ie practice). Just because the sheep herd is following some old manuscripts (written in most cases by below par players) saying 10k is better doesn t mean it is actually better

Cheers

3k and 5k are roughly the same tier, low starting units. The result is that it is far easier to lose in the early turns if some of your expansion is stolen or you take heavy tbs. Theres far less room for recovery and yes more of a luck factor. I would rate 5k as better as there's more viable picks, more viable strategies and as a result more room for creativity.

However such settings do teach the value of micromanaging all your units intensely to 100% efficiency(since there are so few of them.). You can learn to apply this on 10k and above where you have more starting units but it is obviously harder. As a result these settings do demand more skill. More units to manage, more options to consider.

Play whatever settings you like, i do not care and i am glad more 5k cws are being played. But do not post nonsense about the settings which you do not wish to play or master. You are limiting your developement as a player as well as making yourself look ignorant. In some cases it is obvious the player is just trolling.

If you feel eu is overplayed go play 10k destoria, 2nd best competitive map/setting we have for diversity. If it was played more bonker would make alterations. I'll be interested to see what he comes up with in destoria 2.

Oh and to mention 3k sa, mid east etc, these settings are in the lowest tier for player evelopement as they are very esoteric/specialised. Youve only a few viable picks and strategy options. The experience of knowing what works and what doesn't through trial and error is invaluable.

लिखा द्वारा Nations, 22.05.2016 at 08:33

लिखा द्वारा Guest, 22.05.2016 at 03:53

I honestly accept anybody's duels that aren't on totally unbalanced maps. But I openly say why I dislike EU and EU+ 10k duels: they became too much all about memorization. Literally. Whenever I play some guy, he mostly does the same, memorized expansion all over and over. So the one who memorizes the most of the perfect way to play wins the game. How awesome.

i have been telling that for ages.Besides that you also are a 5k fag lets not forget that.5k is also same moves.Basically this whole game is same moves again and again.Also 10k europe is luck.If you guess right what your enemy will do.Same for whole game.

You post a lot of nonsense and vitriol on these forums, i usually ignore it but i am going to address this 1 post as i feel someone needs to say it. It is this attitude:

लिखा द्वारा Nations, 22.05.2016 at 08:33

.Basically this whole game is same moves again and again.Also 10k europe is luck.If you guess right what your enemy will do.Same for whole game.

That sums up the limitations in your gameplay. Let me tell you what this game is really about. Your skills, micro, strategy, experience, rank, upgrades, mechanics knowlege all contribute to your % chance of beating another player. Anyone can technically beat anyone under the right conditions(but ofc in some cases the % chance is so low it might as well be never).

I've played you many times but i didnt pay any particular attention to your gameplay until recently when you decided to become so vocal on the forums. You are one of those high ranks who i would confidently expect to stomp over in any situation. That recent cw where i had killed you safely without taking any risks by t5 was a good example. There were problems in your gameplay that extended beyond strategy map and setting ie your move priorities, risk assessment and micro. But i doubt you care, you probably just like trashtalking.

लिखा द्वारा Permamuted, 22.05.2016 at 09:59

You are one of those high ranks who i would confidently expect to stomp over in any situation. That recent cw where i had killed you safely without taking any risks by t5 was a good example. There were problems in your gameplay that extended beyond strategy map and setting ie your move priorities, risk assessment and micro. But i doubt you care, you probably just like trashtalking.

I would have to analyze the comment about playing 3k in medium-long maps like those that you mentioned.