Death inflicted by Ideologies

This is in response to a comment on the thread "The most hated clans on AW" that Serb commented.

This is the link to the thread:http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=21009

This is Serb's comment:


As Serb said, Capitalism and National-Socialism, killed more people than Communism, and like most people know, those statistics arent fully correct, so I've found decent websites that provide great statistics about ideologies "body counts".
As it is depicted there, some deaths arent counted, but if you count those, you'll realize Communism killed 140.000.000+ people, while comparing to other Ideologies, such as National-Socialism, they killed/caused the death of about 80-90million people, which is much lower than communism casualties.
This is not a thread to glorify evil ideologies like national-socialism, but it is not right to fault-advertise an ideology that killed over 130.000.000 million people (excluding death counts that those website's research exclude).


I'm posting the links below, of Communism body count, and of National-Socialism Body count.

http://www.scottmanning.com/content/communist-body-count/


As said, you can see death by famine, repressions, etc.. from the rise of communism (1918) until it's end.

http://www.scottmanning.com/content/nazi-body-count/


Here we can see National-Socialism led to the death of 20.946.000 non military deaths, which mean it caused the death of almost 21million civilians, (counting all WW2 casualties, which were caused by Germany's agression, this number escalates to 85-100 million people.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_noir_du_capitalisme

It's not an exact known number, but Capitalism, a bad ideology for itself, in some way, has caused the death of 100-120 million people throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.



This wasn't a thread made, as I said, to glorify one ideology and bash the other one, this was a thread to inform and expose the (real) body counts of the biggest ideologies that rose at some point/still are predominant, as we know, Serb tends to glorify Communism by confronting the death caused by western ideologies and western countries, but Communism isnt, and never will be a good ideology to set in motion, as Fascism will never be.

Altough deaths inflicted by Capitalism aren't clear and exact, and altough some count the Bengal famine, and the fact that an average of 5.000.000 children die every year of starvation due to the lack of solidarity shared by capitalist countries, and it's ego-centric regimes, we can admit Communism led to the death of a huge number of people.



I'd appreciate no hate towards this thread, as I wrote it to show decent and true numbers, once again, I say: I'm not glorifying Fascism, and despite coming from a family of fascist aristocrats, I don't share their beliefs.



I found this article pretty good, so I felt it like I should share:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/1999/oct/30/weekend.julieburchill

To be honest 130,000,000 is a gross overestimate but even if Serb's claim of 30,000,000 is correct it is a giant crime and showing those numbers doesn't glorify communism in any way.

लिखा द्वारा Zephyrusu, 03.10.2015 at 08:53

To be honest 130,000,000 is a gross overestimate but even if Serb's claim of 30,000,000 is correct it is a giant crime and showing those numbers doesn't glorify communism in any way.

Have you even opened the link? It shows accurately all body counts of all communist regimes

Tito craping out numbers... what else is new Fappy

Like i said many times before...

What fap thinks this proves:

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

Tito is wrong. Communism killed more people than nazism, and it is evil.

What this really proves:

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

Who cares communism and socialism are the same shit.

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth. Socialism was seeking communism, but it wasn't communism. Therefore, you can only count the communist death that were made against people who though different from communism, not the ones caused by the own government fault (such as famine).

>more than quadruples the number of deaths under fascism
>divides deaths by communism by at least 3
>makes up deaths under capitalism
Tito logic stronk

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 10:38

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth.

This lie needs to stop

अवतरण:

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:29

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth.

This lie needs to stop

Name a communist government.

Oh wait, you can't since pure communist abolish the government. #Reck

अवतरण:

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 11:33

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:29

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth.

This lie needs to stop

Name a communist government.
Oh wait, you can't since pure communist abolish the government. #Reck

Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Vietnam, Cambodia, to name a few
The second part is a blatant lie, thanks for repeating it and contributing to the dumbing down of humanity, stick to Pokemon, it's what you do best

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 11:33

what point are you trying to make? i mean seriously

if i were to get what you are trying to say maybe i could somehow argue it

लिखा द्वारा Evic, 03.10.2015 at 10:32

Like i said many times before...

Well, I used sources to prove he's biased.

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 10:38

What fap thinks this proves:

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

Tito is wrong. Communism killed more people than nazism, and it is evil.

What this really proves:

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

Who cares communism and socialism are the same shit.

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth. Socialism was seeking communism, but it wasn't communism. Therefore, you can only count the communist death that were made against people who though different from communism, not the ones caused by the own government fault (such as famine).

You just made me waste 1minute of my life reading your nonsense.

3rd worlders shouldnt be given the word to participate, this is what happens when they are given the word..

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:29

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 10:38

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 08:49

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth.

This lie needs to stop

Also, he did a nice quote fail

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:37

The earth is flat.

Agree.

This link might be useful for you http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism As for the second point, with a quick check in wikipedia you can actually realize that communism does intend to remove the state. I'll actually leave a fun pic for you

लिखा द्वारा Evic, 03.10.2015 at 11:52

what point are you trying to make? i mean seriously

A true communist state never exist, therefore, how is communist being blamed for what happened in a socialist state? This is just to not say that blaming the death to ideologies that doesn't encourages them (such as capitalism, communist, socialism) is a very silly idea. It will always be up on who does the actions.

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 12:19

3rd worlders shouldnt be given the word to participate, this is what happens when they are given the word..

And here is a brilliant example of how democracy works

At the end of the day, those with the power manipulates democracy to make you elect between two wolves. If another sheep even get to purpose himself as president, he will have to pass all the tricks available by the powerhouse. If that sheep even get to reach the presidency, he will get a coup de eta at the very beginning. As a last instance, if this fails then they will block down your economy with the help of other powerhouses around the world.

This is exactly what the UCN, the Dominicain CEFAL army and the U.S did to Bosch's government. This is what the U.S tried to do with Cuba, and this is also what they are trying to do with Russia (just that russia is way stronger than dominicain republic or Cuba),

Yugoslavia definetly wasnt communist , it was socialist , theres a big difference between communism and socialism , communism was taking everything from the people and giving it all to the state to make a powerfull state , socialism in large was taking most from the state and giving it to the people , hence why a lot of ex-yugo people say they had a better life while it was yugoslavia , but both government types couldnt survive actually , they were doomed to fail because of greed and lust from the people , yugoslavia was in big debts by the late 90's and it was going to collapse anyway actually. And like Clovis said most of the governments werent even close to being communist , when westerners want to point out how many communism killed they say PRC is Communist , but when they want to point out how capitalism outlived the communists they say that PRC is actually more capitalist than communist. A lot of the communist held the state like dictators too , example Stalin , so normally with the wrong people in power...

sorry for long post

1. I don't glorify Communism, my ideology is Humanism. This is the last time i say it, as i don't care for your opinion and repeated false informations (about me) anymore.

2. Your links are interesting, but we can't know if it is true because it is a source from one person called Rummel, it could be his opinion, bias, corruption, political interest.

3. 140 million deaths by Communism is pure insult to Asian people like Russians and Chinese as they are not weak nations who tolerate oppression. Communism was oppressive, but not like West propaganda is telling. If Communism was a beast West claim, Russians and Chinese would kill communists after 1 year of their rule.
Don't forget that this is era of nazi/fascist apologists and era of communist China rising when capitalist West is in recession. 60% chance is that West is using nazism to combat communism once again, thus creating propaganda and fake sources of information.
For 50 years it was widely accepted by historians that around 10-15 million Chinese died in Communist China and 5-10 million Soviets in USSR, plus 3 million Cambodians, 1 million Vietnamese & Koreans and 1 million Yugoslavs/Serbs. 30 million overall.

4. East Indian Company killed 80 million Indians in British Raj, they created 8 famines. Portuguese and Spanish killed 10-50 million Latin Americans with guns, swords or diseases they brought. Belgians killed 1/3 of Congo, Europeans killed 10 million American Indians and between 20-100 million Africans. Overall 100-200 million deaths by Capitalism. That is more than Nazism and Communism combined.

http://beyondheadlines.in/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/original-indian-holocaust-greatgameindia.png
http://i.imgur.com/jpDSCVK.png

5. Greed drove capitalism to kill, hate drove nazism, fanaticism/stupidity drove communism.

6. My ideology (Humanism) killed 0. Therefore it is best ideology.

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 12:52

-snip-

Nazism and Communism stick to the words someone else wrote before them. But at the end, they are the same product with same goal. Both of them contain socialism. Germany was national SOCIALIST, ussr was SOCIALIST soviet republic. Both had welfare states, social programs and red flags.

They both confiscated private property and nationalized factories so state can run them and not private owners. They both collectivized agriculture so state can control them and not people. Later they BOTH reverted some of their policies and gave back property to owners and balanced with mixed properties and economies.

At the end, Nazism is just one of many Socialist directions, an outgrowth. It isn't original idea/ideology. So do not considered nazis as right-wingers. They are leftists whose ideology comes from Marx.

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 12:52

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:37

The earth is flat.

nice avoiding argument, fappy is right, third worlders should stay out of this, you clearly don't have the mental capacity to do this, go back to spamming gay pokemon topics and crying about rpers being oppressed

लिखा द्वारा Ghostface, 03.10.2015 at 13:00

Yugoslavia definetly wasnt communist , it was socialist

you are 100% correct on that that ones my bad

Did'nt read, not intersting at all

अवतरण:

लिखा द्वारा clovis1122, 03.10.2015 at 11:33

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:29

None of those government that are named in the article are communist. In fact, there haven't been any single communist state in the earth.

This lie needs to stop

Name a communist government.

Oh wait, you can't since pure communist abolish the government. #Reck

That was the saddest "#rekt" attempt i've read.

लिखा द्वारा Skanderbeg, 03.10.2015 at 13:18

1. I don't glorify Communism, my ideology is Humanism. This is the last time i say it, as i don't care for your opinion and repeated false informations (about me) anymore.

2. Your links are interesting, but we can't know if it is true because it is a source from one person called Rummel, it could be his opinion, bias, corruption, political interest.

3. 140 million deaths by Communism is pure insult to Asian people like Russians and Chinese as they are not weak nations who tolerate oppression. Communism was oppressive, but not like West propaganda is telling. If Communism was a beast West claim, Russians and Chinese would kill communists after 1 year of their rule.
Don't forget that this is era of nazi/fascist apologists and era of communist China rising when capitalist West is in recession. 60% chance is that West is using nazism to combat communism once again, thus creating propaganda and fake sources of information.
For 50 years it was widely accepted by historians that around 10-15 million Chinese died in Communist China and 5-10 million Soviets in USSR, plus 3 million Cambodians, 1 million Vietnamese & Koreans and 1 million Yugoslavs/Serbs. 30 million overall.

4. East Indian Company killed 80 million Indians in British Raj, they created 8 famines. Portuguese and Spanish killed 10-50 million Latin Americans with guns, swords or diseases they brought. Belgians killed 1/3 of Congo, Europeans killed 10 million American Indians and between 20-100 million Africans. Overall 100-200 million deaths by Capitalism. That is more than Nazism and Communism combined.

You are retarded if you consider Colonialism a sort of Capitalism, the correct term is Mercantilism!


And we can't discuss deaths in such different and far apart eras, that's being ignorant, history-wise.

Can't we all just agree that humans can be terrible people and regardless of the excuse, whether it be religion or ideology, all these institutions are flawed because man is flawed. All of these people who carried out these atrocities did so because of fear or power. No way to justify mass slaughter of people for any reason (will wait for plebs to quote me and say how slaughter of Jews, gypsies slavs, homosexuals, mentally and physically disabled was okay because they were all secretly involved in global illuminati conspiracy of the New World Order headed by a base on the Dark Side of the Moon with alien overlords who planted the first seeds of life on Earth and have affected history for all of these things to occur). I don't think people should be fighting over whether capitalism or communism kills more, I think you all should be fighting over how to stop people form killing one another without killing each other figuring it out (as one online cult loves to do). #We're All Human It's Just That Some People Are Talking Out Of Their Ass Because They Have Their Head Stuck Up There too Long

लिखा द्वारा Pheonixking929, 03.10.2015 at 21:05

(will wait for plebs to quote me and say how slaughter of Jews, gypsies slavs, homosexuals, mentally and physically disabled was okay because they were all secretly involved in global illuminati conspiracy of the New World Order headed by a base on the Dark Side of the Moon with alien overlords who planted the first seeds of life on Earth and have affected history for all of these things to occur).

LOLOLOL I'm laughing. History Channel much?


But you do have a point, Human being and Humanity itself arent perfect.

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 21:10

लिखा द्वारा Pheonixking929, 03.10.2015 at 21:05

(will wait for plebs to quote me and say how slaughter of Jews, gypsies slavs, homosexuals, mentally and physically disabled was okay because they were all secretly involved in global illuminati conspiracy of the New World Order headed by a base on the Dark Side of the Moon with alien overlords who planted the first seeds of life on Earth and have affected history for all of these things to occur).

LOLOLOL I'm laughing. History Channel much?


But you do have a point, Human being and Humanity itself arent perfect.

> History Channel

They went downhill a long, long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

लिखा द्वारा Pheonixking929, 03.10.2015 at 21:05

I don't think people should be fighting over whether capitalism or communism kills more, I think you all should be fighting over how to stop people form killing one another without killing each other figuring it out.

Well said.

लिखा द्वारा Viruslegion, 03.10.2015 at 11:29

This lie needs to stop

What lie? By definition, a communist society doesn't have an organized government.

So if a society has an organized government, as all those Marxist socialist societies did, it cannot be communist.

लिखा द्वारा Pheonixking929, 03.10.2015 at 22:09

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 21:10

लिखा द्वारा Pheonixking929, 03.10.2015 at 21:05

(will wait for plebs to quote me and say how slaughter of Jews, gypsies slavs, homosexuals, mentally and physically disabled was okay because they were all secretly involved in global illuminati conspiracy of the New World Order headed by a base on the Dark Side of the Moon with alien overlords who planted the first seeds of life on Earth and have affected history for all of these things to occur).

LOLOLOL I'm laughing. History Channel much?


But you do have a point, Human being and Humanity itself arent perfect.

> History Channel

They went downhill a long, long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

-->History Channel is the one who broadcasts nonsense about how aliens helped humans build things, helped Incas, the mayans, made the Nazca thingies, etc.. which is funny af lel

लिखा द्वारा Al Fappino, 03.10.2015 at 17:13

You are retarded if you consider Colonialism a sort of Capitalism, the correct term is Mercantilism!

And we can't discuss deaths in such different and far apart eras, that's being ignorant, history-wise.

India was occupied and controled by East Indian Company. Joint-stock company = pure capitalist. Netherland had Dutch African Company occupying South Africa.

That's like saying Western term 'communism' for USSR and China is wrong because correct term is Collectivism.