Iron fist

I think iron fist should be rework. any ideas.

Please explain why it needs a rework and maybe propose your own ideas first!

लिखा द्वारा Amok, 26.03.2011 at 12:06

Strategy usage:

Tank General 1482
Perfect Defence 891
Naval Commander 350
Imperialist 228
Master Of Stealth 208
Guerrilla Warfare 186
Sky Menace 115
Blitzkrieg 24
Great Combinator 15
Lucky Bastard 3
Iron Fist 1

Well its pretty expensive, so we would expect there to be less use as opposed to the free/cheap strategies.

But really, it adds nothing to say it needs to be fixed or point out how little it is used. Give some discussion of the issues and possible solutions. The more players who contribute to the discussion and offer ideas the more likely they are to tweak the strategy.

I personally think the -2 range is too crippling, even with the +3hp benefit. Militia have 0 range, which is annoying. Its also impossible to reach even short distances (berlin to vienna for instance).

It's not only the -range, but also the cost of the units. That's a really, really bad mix. If you are being attacked and your units are too slow to get them to the city in time, you will need to place defending units there.
But with such a high cost that again is a problem, when you also want to expand.
Maybe one of those two disadvantages should be changed. Either let them move further or not make it that expensive.
Instead of lowering their range you could for example decrease the attack value of attacking units and the defense value of defensive units. Or decrease the view range, which is I think very interesting.
I believe it is a huge disadvantage when you see there is something coming at you, but you don't know what. This way it would feel very diffrent to play against Iron Fist too.
You could split your armies in smaller and bigger stacks and the Iron Fist player wouldn't know which one he has to attack. But still he has the HP boost on his side, which makes him less vurnable.

लिखा द्वारा learster, 30.03.2011 at 12:27

It's not only the -range, but also the cost of the units. That's a really, really bad mix. If you are being attacked and your units are too slow to get them to the city in time, you will need to place defending units there.
But with such a high cost that again is a problem, when you also want to expand.
Maybe one of those two disadvantages should be changed. Either let them move further or not make it that expensive.
Instead of lowering their range you could for example decrease the attack value of attacking units and the defense value of defensive units. Or decrease the view range, which is I think very interesting.
I believe it is a huge disadvantage when you see there is something coming at you, but you don't know what. This way it would feel very diffrent to play against Iron Fist too.
You could split your armies in smaller and bigger stacks and the Iron Fist player wouldn't know which one he has to attack. But still he has the HP boost on his side, which makes him less vurnable.

this is what i thought but couldnt put it in to words. i thought you should decrease attack on some of the units like now you cant move mitlia witch sucks. but thats not the only problem the hp has not been worked out yet either. it still at 7 for all units that something that has to be fixed to.

I think the idea to cut off the view range is an interesting one. Add this negative and then have only a -1 movement and make everything only 10 more expensive rather than 20 and it could be a unique, but viable strategy.
So to organize my ideas:
New Iron Fist

Pros
+3HP

Cons
-1 movements
+10 cost
much smaller view range(yet to be quantified)

I find thats fair and people can turn the negatives into positives. maby more people we start using it besides me trying to turn it in to a positive. but ivan has to agree

I honestly think that shortening in the range is a huge penalty already, and making units more expensive just cripples it. Rapid expansion is necessary in the early game, and Iron Fist players are basically forced to rely on air transports, which further makes it a painfully expensive strategy.

Some interesting ideas here. I decided to change +20 cost to -4 view range instead. This should make the strategy more viable, but still have enough downsides to counterbalance +3 HP. I would still insist on keeping the -2 range though.

There's already a strategy that raises all units strength at the higher cost of units (Lucky Bastard); changing this to view range should make Iron Fist more unique.